Watch out for shopwatchonline.co.uk

If you're a shopwatch scheme manager or are involved in the procurement of a new radio system, you might want to read this before you buy anything from, or sign any contracts with shopwatchonline.co.uk.

Kirisun S780 - a £71 digital radio

Shopwatch Online are selling SCHEMELINK digital and analogue radios which appear to be rebadged radios from low budget Chinese manufacturers. The digital SCHEMELINK radios they sell look to be the same radio as the Kirisun S780 but with a different logo. I have done a series of videos on this radio (Kirisun S780) and owned a pair for quite a while, so I know very well what they are like. I personally don't think they are at all suitable for use by a shopwatch scheme. They can be bought individually, including the radio, antenna, charger and battery for £71 including postage on eBay. The RF performance of this radio is sub par, and can easily be desensitized (which means that they will not receive radio traffic from other users) by strong signals nearby. These radios also had a problem whereby the radio's speaker would permanently stop working on some units, if the volume was turned up too high and a transmission received. I had to send one radio back because of this problem.

The £11 Baofeng BF-888S radio

The analogue SCHEMELINK radios they are selling, currently for £35 each, appear to be even worse.
They look to be rebadged Baofeng BF-888S radios, which are, to put it simply, the cheapest radios you can possibly buy. It is possible to buy them individually for as little as £11 on eBay, which means Shopwatch Online are inflating the price by 318% if my calculations are correct. If you don't believe me, look on eBay for yourself.
Not only are these radios cheap and poor quality, the chargers supplied with these analogue Baofeng BF-888S radios (or at least the last time I bought one*) are dangerous, because the wires are not double insulated. This means they can easily cause electric shocks. I don't know if Shopwatch Online are selling the radios with these chargers, but I really hope not.

These radios are often bought by individuals who are looking for ultra-cheap recreational communications because they are cheaper than the license free PMR446 radios sold in high street shops like Argos.

I have written this post to inform people about the dangers of these radios, and the fact that I believe that they are unsuitable for use in a shopwatch scheme. Compared to the radios used by other shopwatch schemes, the performance of the radios is poor, the radios are not rugged or waterproof,  and the radio dealer is adding a huge markup in my opinion.

* For the record, I sent it back, because it was so dangerous and poor quality.

 Note regarding crossed out information
 On 27/10/15, the following comment was posted in the comments section of this post by the user "tenfourgudbuddy" who claims to be a representative of stopwatchonline.co.uk. He said that the radios they are selling are not rebadged Baofeng BF-888S radios. I have crossed through the information in the post that may no longer be accurate with this updated information. See the comments below if you want to see my response.
"Please correct all of the the misinformation in this post of remove it completely. Shopwatch online does not sell or use Kirisun handsets. The units that you refer to a Baofeng are nothing of the sort. They are Zastone V-180 handsets that are a completely different make, quality, size and product. All the handsets use transformers at the plug and DO NOT use single insulated wires. Steve - Shopwatch Online. Please contact me if you have any questions. contact@shopwatchonline.co.uk"

Kirisun S780 CPSc 2.14 Download

Download here

Kirisun dPMR446 radios

Kirisun FP520S and FP560S

Recently, Kirisun have released some dPMR446 radios. These are designed to work in the License free band just above the normal PMR446 allocation in Europe. What's great about this is that you don't have to worry about getting a license (or not getting one for some people!) and can legally use them throughout Europe. I usually make a blog post for any radios I come across on the web that look promising, so I thought I'd write about these radios too.
These radios are perfect for non technical users, who just want a radio to work, but they also have some fun functions for the technical user such as FPP (Front Panel Programming) if you have the password to unlock it!
The model numbers for these 2 radios are FP520S and FP560S. As is common with radio products, there is a display version and a non-display version. The display version is the one with the higher model number.

Icom IC-F4029SDR

Now, let me just warn you, these products are a lot more expensive than normal analog PMR446 radios, but they are cheaper than the Icom IC-F4029SDR, which had been around as the only dPMR446 radio for quite a few years with no competitors. I also recently found out about the Kenwood TK-3401D which, with a list price of £191, is a tiny bit cheaper than the Icom. The Kenwood can currently be found on the internet for £155 (seems to be a special offer) which makes it quite a bit cheaper than the Icom. The Kenwood does not have a screen or keypad though.

The Icom and Kenwood use the same vocoder, and the same dPMR446 standard, so theoretically they should work together. The Kirisuns use a different vocoder so won't be able to hear or talk to these radios in digital mode.

Kenwood TK-3401D

The Kirisun FP520S has a list price of £169 + VAT, and the FP560S has a list price of £189 + VAT. Although this is just a list price, and I'm sure, just like the with Kenwood, it can go down a bit.

That brings the total number of dPMR446 radios currently available to 4! The old Icom, the new Kenwood, and the 2 new Kirisuns.

Kirisun originally wanted to use the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then changed their minds and decided to use the newer and (apparently) slightly better sounding N100 vocoder. Of course, the benefit of this is that it should sound better, but it also means that it won't work with either the Icom or the Kenwood dPMR radios. I couldn't find any additional information on this vocoder at the time of writing, so if you find anything, please leave me a comment so I can update the post.

More photos and Specifications:

Range of the Kirisun S780 compared to analog

I've been testing out these S780s a lot recently, and have been finding that the range is probably no better than an analog radio of the same power. Despite the claims by most manufacturers that digital gives better range than analog, this turns out not to be true for the Kirisun S780, or at least for the ones I have.

The digital does not work anywhere near as well as analog when in a moving vehicle due to objects moving in and out of the path causing a kind of fluttering effect on the signal. On analog you would be able to make out some words and miss others when this is happening, but with digital, you just don't decode when this is happening. You will see the green light but the radio just doesn't lock on to the signal. This is because the radio has to lock on to the digital before it can decode, but the analog doesn't, and allows you to hear very short segments if they are there, such as a fluttering signal.

When using the radio from a static location, I have found that analog has a significantly greater range than the Kirirsun. This is down to the fact that the Kirisun has poor filtering and would be desensitized by any other nearby RF, even when on a completely different band. If you're in the middle of nowhere, where there are no strong FM radio stations, or pagers, or mobile phone masts, then the Kirisuns will perform better, but they will still not come close to the performance of analog. Since the majority of us live in cities where there will be a lot of RF around, I say that the Kirisuns are nowhere near as good for range as a normal analog radio of the same price range.

However, even though the range might suffer, I think it is still better using digital in cases where range is not critical. e.g. For use in a shop. There are some features that make digital worth using: The fact that you can status inquire radios means that you can leave a radio somewhere and then take another radio out to see how far you can get without needing someone else to sit there waiting for you to do a range check. In practical use, you can use the status inquire to see if someone is in range, and then if they are not, you can try moving position slightly and trying again before attempting to call them. You couldn't do this on analog.
Another feature that make the digital superior is group and private calling. This is really useful in a group of people where you might want to speak to one person without the others hearing. You can also easily talk to new radios owned by different people without setting it up in the software. You can dial their radio ID directly from the home screen, which private calls them when you press the PTT, or you can add them as a contact if this option has been enabled in the programming.

The other good thing about using digital is that its digital! You get to hear that weird vocoded voice. I mean sure the novelty will wear off after a while but it is very fun at first. Oh and no scanner users can listen in to you, even with encryption turned off.

My overall opinion on the use of these radios is that its worthwhile using them for fun, or for the convenience of the digital functions, but if range is very important to you, you should consider using analog or a better (more expensive) digital set. I wouldn't consider using these for a business where communication reliability is essential, but for private use, they are good fun to play with where communication is not critical.

Got the radio back today (Kirisun S780)

So, today the Kirisun S780 came back from repair. Took 16 days in total including postage both ways. They have actually replaced the radio rather than repaired it. I don't know why they did this, maybe they don't yet know how to repair it, or maybe it was too badly damaged. I could tell it was replaced because there was a screen protector on the screen, and the programming I put in had gone, and been replaced by the default programming.
So, in summary, I want to say I'm happy with the repair service provided by 409shop, which was fast considering it was sent all the way to China, and they even provided a tracking number on the way back to the UK. They didn't offer to pay my postage costs, but I didn't ask them to, since it was only £4.50.

Update on the Kirisun - bit of a problem

Well, today I turned on my Kirisuns again, and was trying out the messaging a bit. I turned the volume up on one radio and sent it a message, and the audio went!
After that, there was no more audio coming out of the speaker when I pressed buttons, sent messages or voice calls. Very annoyed with this. I think kirisun will need to sort out this problem. Other people have said that their audio has broken too, but no one else I know of has had this happen just by turning the audio up all the way. It happened to others if they plugged in the programming lead with the radio on.
I'm going to try to get the radio replaced or repaired, and hope that the other radio doesn't produce the same problem.
I've tried turning the radio on and off, even removing the battery, but still to no avail. I think it's definitely a hardware fault.
Chinese manufacturers really need to get their act together and properly test their products before selling them to people.

Digital radios for preppers

When I got my Kirisun S780s a few days ago, I was messing about with all the settings as I usually do with new gadgets, and turned on encryption in the programming software. This got me thinking about preppers. Preppers usually like to have communications equipment prepared for possible times of disaster.
In a WROL situation, where someone could loot you for all your preparations if they knew about them, I'm sure preppers would like to have encrypted communications, so that anyone with a scanner can't find out where they keep their food stores or secret stash of fuel.
These Kirisun radios provide inherent security, in that not many people will have radios that use the same vocoder, and it is unlikely anyone around you will have one. This could be called "security through obscurity". That is even if you don't turn on the encryption. To a scanner listening in analog, these radios just sound like a load of noise. Now, if someone were to buy a radio the same as you, and program it up to the same frequency, they would be able to listen in to any unencrypted comms. Thats where the encryption comes in handy. Switch over to an encrypted channel, and they will not be able to understand it at all. All you hear when listening to an encrypted channel on a radio without encryption, is a few funny digital noises. But at the same time, you can understand anyone without encryption on their radio.

Kirisun S780 photos

Just a few photos of the kirisun s780. For more info, have a look at my YouTube playlist with the best videos of the Kirisun S780.

Kirisun S780

I ordered the S780 today, so will be doing a very detailed review as soon as it arrives! Look out for it.

Update: Just checked the postage tracker, it has left hong kong today, 06/07/13
 A few people on the group have been complaining about them ordering 2 radios and one of them not having working audio. I'll be pretty annoyed if that happens with mine! I'm really hoping at the moment that it doesn't.

Okay the radios came today (10/07/13) and they do not have the audio problem (yet!).
I have already done a range test and have to edit it, along with an unboxing video showing what the digital audio sounds like, and the analog.
I must comment, that the analog sounds awfully muffled on transmit.
Will be uploading the videos either tomorrow or the day after.

Another update: there are now lots of videos about this radio on my youtube channel.
One of the radios has developed the audio fault and I am having to send it back to Hong Kong to be repaired/replaced.

 

More updates:

here is the unboxing and digital audio test

 

Kirisun S780 information on vocoder and standard

I'm very interested in this radio because it is a cheap way to try out digital, so I have been looking through the internet and contacting manufacturers and resellers about this product and thought I'd create a post to show everything I've found out that you might want to know.
The radios are available on 409shop for $128, or on ebay for $140 or £90. (Correct at time of writing)

So here it is:

Kirisun DP770

The Kirisun DP770 is another digital radio by Kirisun, but this time, following the DMR standard.
I have made this post to collect together some information about the radio because there is not a lot available at the moment.
First you will want to look at the Kirisun website for official information such as specs:
http://en.kirisun.com/detail.aspx?id=11&zhu=1&Cyrus=1


The next thing is the only non official source of photos, which is currently this Russian website who will be selling the radios when they come out.

This radio is currently in a closed beta test, before it's release to the general public, but when it comes out, I am hoping to buy 2 radios to do a review on them. (Edit: Not anymore, see below)

I think this is going to be an excellent product for Kirisun because of all the features it has, which should allow it to compete with MOTOTRBO in the DMR market. This radio is certified to the DMR standard by the DMR association which means it will work with existing MOTOTRBO and Hytera DMR repeaters. It also has optional GPS tracking, and IP67 (water and dust proof) which I was surprised by, since appears to be such good quality for what is should be a reasonably priced radio. I just hope they do set the price low, otherwise there would be absolutely no point in anyone buying this product over a Motorola.
The design of this radio looks very similar to the Motorola DP3600, just with a bigger and better screen. I presume that Kirisun has taken some of the design from the MOTOTRBO product line, and will now be able to undercut their excessively high prices.

Update (November 2013): The price per radio is expected to be around $300 USD, not including shipping or any customs charges. I was a bit disappointed about this, since it is quite a lot once you add on shipping and import duty, you may as well buy a second hand Motorola, which you know will be good quality and you know you're not taking a gamble with.

Another Update (April 2014): I got my hands on a pair of these radios, thanks to Radio Distribution Limited, and made a review which you can see on YouTube at the links below, if you're interested.
DP770 reivew part 1
DP770 reivew part 2